If you’re subject to trip over punctuation and spelling, you may need to watch your step it’s still a job site.
Navigating the site is best achieved by using the headings on the left side. Scrolling is not recommended ! we have used a Blog template, but a blog it most certainly is not, pages will be updated, dates will not change.
Philosophically:
The primary philosophical question, for me, in contemplating a web site was
Do I say the right things ?
Do I ride the coat tails of the existing marketing: Lay low, say less, offend few; leave room for people to think what they want ?
Or do I call it as I see it ?……I opted for the latter. Because having looked at canine Web sites for about a decade now, I have a pretty good idea of what we don’t need more of. So if you’ve grown to expect self-aggrandizement, distracting backgrounds, unverifiable claims, glowing breed descriptions, poetic breed history, moral grandstanding, a smorgasbord of superlatives, and enough deceit by omission to fill a black hole; then this Web site may take some getting used to.
Having fielded phone calls without a web site for that same decade I’ve concluded a better educated market is the only thing that will dictate significant change for the better ( a truth not limited to the world of dogs ). Most all of the text then, is written not for the experienced dog man, who doesn’t need it, but for the general public, which does.
If you just want to see photos, you can do that by clicking on the breed or cross you’re interested in. If you are inclined, you can access my thinking, wisdom, or lack there of, on a variety of dog related subjects. There is a book’s worth of text I wound up compiling as I procrastinated creating a web site for years. For those who want my two cents, I’ve written it all once, to avoid speaking it time and again, so please do try and find your answers here, the search bar is your friend.
Where breed descriptions or history are in order I try to offer something beyond the usual cut and paste propaganda; that can be had easily enough elsewhere. I strive to keep the spin to a minimum here.
The primary purposes of this web site are:
1. To market my dogs to the widest audience possible
2. To cover the basics, so it’s not necessary every time the phone rings.
3. To try and do my share of educating the dog buying public and providelinks and resources for those who care to go deeper.
Hopefully you will find the site navigable, and helpful in understanding the big picture. I have spent a fair amount of time on various topics, some overlapping, written with the expectation that most people are not going to read thoroughly enough for that to be an issue. There is a series of short essays under the heading The Word of dog where you will also find links to any text not already granted a link on the left side.
I’ve had a few chuckles writing it, I hope you will enjoy it likewise in the reading. Unfortunately one’s Website, as a public document, needs also be tempered by the reality that readership is not limited to well wishers. The phrase “Anything you say can and will be used against you “ pops to mind for some reason. If you find there are notable omissions, on some topics, more than likely they have been made intentionally.
And it need not be a personal thing in this time and place. Those who breed dogs intended to be capable of stopping a cougar, a wolf, a wild boar, or a man, would do well to realize that even something as innocent as a photo of a dog biting a sleeve, not to mention a mammal, once public, can be misrepresented. That same image can be misconstrued by folks with a different agenda; or, God forbid, misunderstood by a jury. Between “animal rights”, “dangerous dog laws” and government regulation gone malignant, the window of personal liberty it seems, is closing fast. Much as I believe in fighting that trend, I’d not like to leave any extremities dangling in the cybersill.
Olympicdogs is firstly a geographic reference. We are located on the Olympic Peninsula in North Western Washington State, within sight of the Puget Sound and with our back to the foothills of the Olympic National Forest at a place called Discovery Bay. Roughly 45 miles, as the crow flies or the boat sails, from Seattle Washington.
And despite the fact the word Olympic carries little sheen in a place where it prefaces every other mundane business from Asphalt to Septic design, if ever we relocate I’ll probably keep the name. As using breeds from Europe, Argentina, Africa, and Turkey the innuendo of The Olympics is not lost on me either. Nor that of great heights, lofty aspirations, exceptional athletes from all corners of the world, etc. I’ve made an effort to own/breed the best examples possible from the breeds chosen; so in that sense, I’ll continue to wear the title proudly regardless of location.
Our 30 acres is bordered by commercial timberland and the national forest ( might as well have a million ) which provides endless miles of trails for running the dogs; but also creates an ongoing struggle with predators. Cougars, namely, and the less problematic coyote, and black bear also. As we are building both dairy and meat goat herds, both of which forage not only on pasture, but up into the lush undergrowth of alder forest which represents the practical edge of a vast wilderness, we have a very real testing ground for those working breeds suited to the task of keeping herbivores alive. Not to mention accompanying us humans, big and especially small, on any ventures into the woods.
I don’t own a kennel.
I won’t refer to my operation as a “kennel.” The smallest pen I can keep a dog in is a quarter of an acre; the largest single pen is over four, and those that don’t roam, or kill stock, can run thirty. There is not a one on a chain, or in a cage. Many breeders claim things like,
“quality over quantity ”
Like most breeder rhetoric, it tends to be vacuous, at best. The vast majority keep their dogs in very small kennels or on chains. Irrespective of what one can, or cares to, offer their dogs, I think the following a fair question to ask when viewing a “kennel”
Is this a situation I want to support ?
I have considered all the breeds in dogdom in deciding which ones had the traits I wanted. And have travelled much of the country and to several continents looking at, and for, the best examples of the breeds I’ve chosen to work with. While there are some notable differences in prey drive, or lack there of; independence or lack there of, there are also some common denominators. One hundred, sometimes hundred fifty plus lbs. of intelligent, territorial, protective, athletic, capable and largely un-gentrified canine. All famously good with children, all considered “working” dogs. In a word they are all “watchdogs” be it family, stock, property or some combination there in; their first job is to protect ( be it offense or defense ) As a consequence I am really always looking for much the same temperamental traits; smarts,nerve, courage, heart. And physically, despite working with large breeds, I’ll not sacrifice movement, athleticism, or soundness for size. I’m not in this to make yard ornaments.
I do aim to turn a profit, as a matter of principle and habit, but the fact remains my time would be better spent elsewhere if money was the primary motivation; that’s been proven. That’s why I don’t need dogs to pay my bills, just theirs. At the end of the day, I breed to satisfy my needs, my passion, or my curiosity first. I’ve usually got my eye on a litter for what I want. That’s called the breeders prerogative, it goes unsaid most of the time. I am out, first and foremost, to create dogs that are up to my standards and serve my needs and wants. And though I see no shame in providing a service to others, that is secondary.
Nor are the dogs my surrogate children, family, or friends; I have humans to fill all those roles. And though I grow quite fond of some dogs, I believe that can be a liability to a breeder. I try not to let my heart cloud my vision too much; easier said than done, but necessary just the same, and something I look for in a breeder when I’m buying.
For most of my life I owned one dog at a time, for the lifetime of that dog. The relationship that can develop in that context is a luxury I’m not sure a breeder can afford to indulge. A breeder plays God; as such I believe he also needs to be prepared to play the Grim Reaper. A certain amount of detachment is necessary.
As time passes, I will come to posses better and better examples of the breeds I choose, and the crosses there of, because I’m willing and able to search the world in pursuit of them, and constantly looking to breed better ones. And because I don’t confuse my dogs for people, I’ll always be improving the quality of what’s here.
The perspective is long term; I plan on breeding for the duration. Hopefully, I will have accomplished something by then, and one or more of my many children will be interested in continuing on what’s been built. As anyone that knows me can tell you, breeding is more a less a way of life around here. Be it an abiding respect for natural laws, a fascination with genetics, or just a logical way to run a ranch; I will breed. Mother nature is who I turn to for wisdom; merciless bitch though she may be, she never fails to inspire.
I think the two biggest problems in purebred dogs can be reduced to:
A. Lack of meaningful selection pressure
B. Inbreeding
The core of my philosophy is avoiding that one-two punch and dogs/breeds that have not. If you’re looking for the take home message from the cliff notes, you’re done.
What follows is a rough ride through my reasoning, containing links to specific topics offered in greater detail elsewhere on the site, most of which can be found indexed in The Word of Dog. Which I recommend as a starting point, if you aren’t well versed in dogs nor opposed to reading. This “Overview” then is a sort of short version of the site text as a whole, for those not inclined to read in depth. But be forewarned, reading both will make a certain amount of redundancy unavoidable.
In the wild, survival of the fittest insures quality. In the world of domesticated animals that guarantee is conspicuously absent. Because man imposes, consciously or not, the new selection criteria he becomes nature, or God if you prefer. A reality more fully addressed in Dogs in the World
And man’s selection process is all too…. human. Usually financially driven or tainted by ego, as often limited by compassion as ignorance, and almost always compromised by convenience. All breeders are guilty of these things to some degree; what separates us is a matter of degree. Just a few of the things to be considered in Choosing a Breeder.
There are many breeds that intrigue me. Some I’ve had need or desire enough to own, others I’ve yet to, none are sacred. Stellar and sorry examples fly under the flag of any given breed; as does more variation than is commonly assumed, and more hype than you might imagine. Just a few things to consider inChoosing a Breed.
I keep an eye open for exceptional individuals of many stripes, but of necessity, have narrowed the focus to three primary breeds: Boerboels, Dogos, Kangals all of which I will breed pure. And the Dane, which is too far gone as a breed, to bother ( I’ve only one life time to find one worth feeding… much less two )
I use all of those, and a few others to offer a variety of mixes you can see photos of and read more about in Cross Options. Most of which will fall into two basic divisions; Olympic farm dogs (kangal based ((low prey drive )) and Olympic road dogs ( Dogo based (( high prey drive)) reflecting the most relevant issue on a goat ranch, who can trusted left alone with stock. And all of which you can read more about inDog Directionsand/orBreeds as Ingredients
In the general sense of health, most any “purebred” would benefit from being crossed. And in the specific realm of individual wants and needs, I find the possibilities afforded by crossing too rich to ignore. In either case my bias remains strongly in favor of working dogs- dogs bred to a purpose
“Weren’t they all?” you might ask.
Yes…once upon a time, but that is a rarity today. The AKC reads as a catalogue of breeds no longer remotely competitive at their original functions. And most are riddled with genetic disease and temperamental peculiarity. Much of what’s available to the public today is fall down from show dogs, a problem compounded; for as misguided as the show ring may be as a selection pressure, those damaged goods are then multiplied by random convenience breeders ( “backyard breeders” ). The end result composes the vast majority of the purebred state of disgrace available to the public today. All of which, and the distinctions there of, you can read more about in Dogs in America
Working dogs are bred to a purpose. And the point for me is not always the specific purpose; hunting, guarding, and so forth, so much as any purpose. It’s not the specialized task, necessarily, but the existence of any competitive functional criteria at all. None of the breeds I work with are particularly specialized anyway; Dogos can be taught to hunt most anything, Kangals to guard anything, Boerboels to do, or not do, damn near anything.
But all three are naturally inclined to love and protect their people. Solid nerves, courage, smarts, sound bodies, are always welcome. A biddable or independent thinking dog can each be useful in different settings, but a smart dog is almost always welcomed in a working environment. Whether those traits evolved hunting, protecting stock, property, or people, is less important to me than that some sort of competitive selection pressure was applied……. in recent history.
It would seem a given that any dog owner wants a healthy, temperamentally sound canine. I believe one is far more likely to find that in dogs from working origin than show lines. And perhaps more likely still to find it in a cross than a purebred. Yet when one talks to the public about “working dogs” the blank stare, or joke, is all too common
“ Working-dog…….sounds good, you got one who will buy its own food, and maybe change the cat litter for me ? ”
Point being, though many people remain confused about the reality of “show dogs,” most are at least familiar with the term; but “working dog” is not a term that has any meaning to much of the public. Part of what I’m attempting to do with this site is take a bite, however small, out of that ignorance.
And I do believe the public has grown weary of shelling out for purebred disasters. They are becoming increasingly willing to pay for a “known cross;” a mixture of known quantities. As opposed to a “ mutt,” which is as a dog of random or indeterminate origin, a different thing entirely, a distinction also elucidated in Dogs in America .
As time passes, the market will likely be flooded with intentional crosses. Unfortunately most will be crosses of lousy purebreds! Created by breeders with no real concern for the quality of the individual dogs. For buyers who we can’t expect to be much more discerning in choosing a cross, than they have historically been a purebred. One of my goals is to set myself apart from that pending disaster by having purebreds that hold their own as such, who stand out as such……. and crossing them anyway.
If you’ve walked in circles that produce dogs, you already realize this behavior will garner some critics, especially where it takes a bite of their pie. I’ve created a heading all its own to address them and their flawed reasoning in Defending The Cross. If you’re not at all familiar with dog geeks, you might find it hard to believe how absurdly possessive they become of “their” respective breeds. Never mind the fact that most breeds were created by crossing existing breeds, the point is lost on the majority of the purebred breeding herd.
I also want people to be able see with their own eyes the purebreds behind the crosses, in one location, for generations. And will compile relevant health testing information, hip scores, etc. So that somewhere down the line people can look at generations worth of health testingdocuments regarding the lineage of a given dog; be it pure, or be it mixed.
Another point, which I suppose belongs in this section, is this. If you spend anytime at all in dog circles, you will find that one of a precious few things that the hard core working people and the show people seem to share is a certain contempt for the word “pet.” As evidenced by the practice of labeling their sub-par animals as such…. “pets,“ “pet quality“ is a pejorative term !?
That’s indicative of the reality that creating a good pet is well down the priority list in both worlds, one makes trophies, the other slave labor. Virtually no one, amongst the endless factions and divisions of Dogdom, is bragging about producing good pets! When in fact the actual percentage of true working dogs and serious show dogs combined is statistically insignificant from a population genetics standpoint. Dogdom, in this country, and much of the industrialized world, if not the stray strewn rock on the whole, is composed primarily of pets.
The problem is pet owners are not very discerning; in searching, selecting, or sifting their dogs ( a discretionary void gleefully filled by breeders of all ilk ). They mostly just want something to love. And once they choose, they tend to return the “unconditional love” they receive from their “best friends” no matter the lack of inherent merit in the beast. More over, all too many of those love struck owners, then take to breeding. And your Sir name need not be Darwin to know none of that is without selection pressure consequence.
If you go to dog directions, you will notice that three of the four current breeds I work with are relatively rare “working” breeds; that’s not an accident. These breeds have been, as yet, less watered down by popularity in an overly litigious, reduced sperm count society in which half of all pet owners surveyed said they would opt for their pet over a human companion on a desert island !? ( who’s got that survey ? )
The rare breeds have been less influenced by the selection pressures of the show fancy and the pet market simply by coming later to our shores. The decline and fall is inevitable, but they are more likely to have retained some health, smarts, or backbone than those breeds long since gentrified. And even if these breeds are doomed to go the way of those before them, the traits of quality individuals can still be used in the mixing pot, as discussed in Breeds as Ingredients.
I will admit the only way to know for sure what a cross will produce is by doing it, and observing the results. I expect to be demonized by a certain segment of dog nerds for this unapologetic sacrilege; or at least to be slandered on line, where disrespect remains free of consequence. You can get my take on dogs and the www atDogs and The Net.
But it bears repeating, I expect my purebreds to hold their own. That said, I am equally if not more proud, to be the only person on earth undertaking some of these crosses. And likewise fascinated to witness, learn, and select my personal working dogs, and pets, from the process.
The primary purposes of this site are to announce to the world which dogs I have, which crosses I normally produce, which crosses are otherwise possible; and to offer some basic info on the nature of the given breeds, so people can decide for themselves what breed or mixture might suit them best. It’s always preferable to have homes in advance, even more so with the crosses, so I’ve structured myPricesto offer incentives to those who commit early.
I’m proud when working people want my dogs, purebreds or crosses, and I will deal to proven working homes. But I see no shame in providing “normal” people good solid pets either. Many of the qualities that make a good working dog make a good pet. Sometimes the extreme specialized niche of a real working dog calls for an extreme temperament, which really is not a good fit in many a pet home. We proceed in the faith that we know the difference, and that there is nothing wrong with breeding to create what we want…..you and I both.
The crossing of breeds is such a controversial issue it seems appropriate I spend some time addressing my perspective, in print, for the record. To the degree that creates some redundancy with sections like ” An overview, ” I hope you will endure. Given the assumption few will read the whole site, it’s more important that each post stand alone. At the very least I can cut and paste this bit on crosses as needed in my online travels, where the crossing of breeds creates endless hoo-hah.
But anyone in animal husbandry, and most genuine dog men, have known forever that there is a payoff to outside blood. Of late the fickle finger of dog fashion has stumbled on the practice. The extent and degree to which this crossing of breeds may be fad driven, there for short-lived, remains to be seen.
Personally I see it as a logical reaction to the pathetic state of purebreds. The problem then, and the only real limitation of the idea, remains the same. As all the dogs crossed, by definition, must be pulled from that same dubious pool. But while most anything would be better than more of the same purebred disaster, and while crossing does address many of the issues associated with inbreeding, it does not begin to address the greater void of a meaningful selection pressure.
Heterosis ( hybrid vigor ) is a scientifically proven reality that minimizes the likely hood of genetic disease and boosts over all health, vigor, even size. A magnification of the gains had by incorporating divergent lines within breed. That said, it is no magic bullet. Crossing breed lines won’t make two dumb dogs smart, nor two cowardly dogs brave. Garbage in will get you garbage out; albeit healthier, possibly more sound…garbage.
Another thing we know is the purebred lines must be kept as such; if not simply out of respect for the legacy of those breeds, then to fully maximize the benefits of crossing them. I personally intend to produce purebred dogs and purebred crosses. I do not see it as either or. I do not care to join any particular camp. I do my own thing.
And I have no interest in covert infusions to any pure breeds gene pool. Where registries have made the mental leap to realize that a closed registry is a genetic dead end, there are processes available to infuse new blood in a documented manner. Where a closed registry is the rule of law, so be it. A pure bred is a pure bred, and is registered accordingly. A cross is a cross; it should be registered as such, or not at all. And where that is the case, and none are miss-represented, the crosses pose no more threat to the purebred’s gene pool than a dog of another breed does. Nothing is lost; nothing is added.
A new and separate thing is created; it does not “pollute” the gene pool of the pure bred, the new cross is not a part of that pool. And the DNA of the dogs crossed is not somehow tainted by the experience. Both dogs can be bred within their own breeds next time around, unaffected.
Common sense?
One would think so. Apparently there is precious little of that commodity available amongst a large vocal sector of purebred enthusiasts. Not to be confused with real dog men, from whom I’ve yet to hear a concern with the practice beyond that of folks sneaking other breeds in unannounced. And that, even after announcing to their faces, that if I acquire a dog from them I may well cross it.
Most hardcore working people have long since jettisoned the closed registry model. Where results are the true endgame, results are all that matter. For example, the Belgian Malinois, which is what police and military use the world over, is allowed to have outside blood infused, a practice not uncommon in working circles where function takes precedent over form.
From the other purebred extreme, the show fancy, there is a tremendous amount of rather hysterical gibberish, which makes perfect sense if you look at the numbers because they are losing money to crosses hand over fist, as their function-less dogs are easily replaced by healthier, less expensive crosses. Many of those that have not, as yet, jumped ship and started crossing are in a veritable tizzy of bitterness.
“ You will ruin the breed”
“ You will pollute the gene pool”
“ They are just mutts”
“ You will create monsters”
“ You can’t have any idea what you’ll get”
“ They won’t be consistent”
Before I stoop to address those supposed concerns, let’s revisit the big picture. There is a recurring pattern for dogs, in America, and much of industrialized world. Breeds, virtually all of which were created to perform some task are increasingly bred for trophies or pets. The working traits are inadvertently lost, or often even selected against. One could go down the whole list of AKC dogs, and almost all of them, even within the breeds classified as “ working dogs,” are no longer competitive as such.
They may still harbor some instincts, some residual tendencies; your AKC retriever will bring your tennis ball, your AKC collie may run circles around your children. But the dogs and their drives and abilities become watered down as sure as the majority of the dog buying public just want pets.
If one really needs a working collie, retriever, livestock guardian, watchdog, etc, then one would do well to hunt out the small sub-culture of folks that are still actively selecting for working ability; chances are they belong to a different registry.
The working ability is one of the first things to go, if it’s not selected for. And often times, the drive to work is a problem for a pet with nothing to do anyway. But that’s just the beginning of the end. Once work is eliminated as a selection pressure, the field is defaulted to the show fancy and the random convenience breeding of the public, a duo no breed can withstand for long.
So, to the assertion
“ You will ruin the breed”
I say
If were talking AKC or dog fancy, chances are that’s already been done. Can an English bulldog be any more ruined? Can an AKC German shepherd, Dane, English mastiff, be made any more of a cartoon. One could go down the whole list of AKC animals and not find much that has not long since been ruined to one degree or another.
To
“ You will pollute the gene pool”
I say not. No dishonesty here, it’s all up front, sneaking nothing in.
“ They are just mutts”
This is a matter of semantics. The dictionary provides a rather useless definition of the term “mutt” as a dog of “impure” origin. As if dogs where ever pure ? As if they stayed behind in the garden. A mutt, in my world, is a mystery, a dog of uncertain make up, unknown origin or component. A cross of known pure breeds is anything but.
“ You’ll create monsters”
I call this the ” Frankenstein paradigm.” It’s hardly more logical than the premise of the film. Nor more reasonable than assuming all the good traits will magically merge in the most desired fashion… which we could call the “cross peddler paradigm,” but they both call into question the next fear on the list
“ You have no idea what you’ll get “
Unless we believe the ” Frankenstein” or the ” cross peddler” paradigms. Again, I’ve found it to be a fairly predictable splitting of the differences as regards the more complex matters such as temperament or overall physical structure… in F1’s anyway. Simpler matters determined by fewer genes like coat type and color, eye color, can be predicted in relative probability by people who are familiar with genetic patterns of dominant and recessive genes, or the software they produce.
“ They will never be consistent”
Actually I wish that was more true. Consistency is overrated in my opinion. People have different wants, and needs, as well as visual preferences. Thus far I’ve found the variation within f1 litters to be not dissimilar to that within purebred litters as regards temperament and over all structure. I’d like to see more variation. Where is it written, aside from somebody’s silly ass standard, that we want cookie cutter dogs?
Athletes who compete in the same extremely specialized sports do come in a variety of shapes, proportions and temperaments. What remains constant is the trade off between size and speed, power and endurance. It is not uncommon to see a much taller rangier man compete against a far shorter more powerfully built man in any number of contests, even when weights are mandated to within a few pounds. Nor is it uncommon for those two men to set about that competition in drastically different manners, reflecting extremely different temperaments. Cookie cutters have no relevancy in the real world; that is largely the residual nonsense of breeding to a visual standard, in my estimation.
But perhaps the most intriguing potential gain of crossing lines, for me, is the amount of change it allows in one generation. Much ground can be covered; broad-brush strokes can be made. It is not the business of baby steps, and in all honesty I have always been more fascinated with the possibilities, and even the unknowns, of a cross.
The truth is there are far too many breeds that interest me to limit myself to one or even two, so I have no intention of doing so. But I have, of necessity, spent years narrowing my choices to a manageable number of purebreds; Boerboels, Dogos, Kangals. And and a couple basic long term divisions for crosses; low prey drive ( the Olympic Farm dogs ) and high, ( the Olympic Road dogs ).
Time, or exceptional dogs of other breeds, may dictate new directions. But for the last several years these are the breeds I’ve been focused on, these I breed and sell pure, these breeds have full descriptions of their own in their respective sections from which a person can make reasonable assumptions as to what they might bring in a cross.
But in this section I want to talk a bit about these breeds, and other I use, like Dane and Akita, as components. I want to address their traits, as ingredients, as they relate to each other; as relates to crossing them.
For the naysayers we have already addressed an essay DEFENDING THE CROSS what follows is written more for the open, or even like minded.
And I want to talk about the major divisions, as I see them, in our dogs.
Prey drive
This is the big one for me; it’s the Mason-Dixon line for anyone with livestock really. Dog’s bred to guard and protect vs. dogs bred to hunt, to get after stuff. Dog’s that can be trusted with stock and dog’s that ….. well really can’t. That’s the primary difference between a road dog and farm dog for me. They are all territorial, they will all protect the home turf from unwanted visitors.
Independence
This perhaps the broadest division but the ramifications of it are myriad. The majority of the breeds I work with are not very independent, and as a result are relatively biddable. The Boerboel, Dogo, Dane these are all yes men dogs to one degree or another; relative to a Kangal anyway, who may well obey, may well be quicker to realize what’s wanted even, but definitely thinks for itself. Or say an Akita who is as independent as anything I’ve owned, and high prey drive. So much so that all I can even keep around anymore is a half Akita.
Heart: is the first thing I think when I think Dogo. When you look at their heads you know where the Heart comes from. But in a dogo that heart beats in long, tall, athletic body. These are Hunting dogs with a lot of fight, get after it, stay at it dogs. These are not dogs easily discouraged from a struggle once they engage, many will go to the death. The Dogo is a dog of temperamental extremes; both an incredibly sweet, tolerant, loving family dog and a dog capable of often suicidal tenacity. This paradox is hard to comprehend, hard not to respect, and for me impossible to resist. In a nutshell a Dogo is a dog with balls, in a world where most breeds are born half neutered any more.
Toughness: A delicate distinction I’m making from heart here, the pain tolerance I’ve experienced in these dogs is pretty impressive, they’re scrappers.
Athleticism: Big time, these dogs are extremely athletic for their size
Prey drive: very high, if that might present a problem, you probably don’t want much Dogo in the mix
Dog Aggression: Very high also, despite the ” pack hunter” lip service
Intelligence: I find them to be quite sharp really, if a bit quirky at times
Size: it’s a touchy subject in Dogos, but I like the big ones, the longer taller ones, because otherwise they start looking very much like pit bulls. So I’ve made it a point to have and breed dogs on the high side of the range, and will continue to do so.
Health: The Dogo is quite possibly the canine poster child of inadequate genetic foundation ( too few, too closely related…the opposite of a landrace breed ). This may seem counter intuitive to those who know a little of Dogo history (the breed was created by mixing a variety of breeds ) and it may have been had the Martinez brother’s plans not been impacted by their respective fates. The plans of mice and men often do go astray, and so it was that the Martinez brothers were forced to “reconstruct “ from a far smaller base then they intended. As a result Dogos suffer from a a variety of issues associated with inbreeding. Various auto-immune issues; most often evidenced in skin problems, diminished fertility, and more. Not to mention issues associated with being all white; sunburn, deafness, etc. As such they are prime candidates to benefit from a cross, so long as it’s not to a white dog, and they bring much to the table.
Gravity: The Boerboel, first and fore most, is sticky. A family dog, great with kids and will become their new shadow out of the crate and as long as it lives. They will wait outside whatever door you last went in, often sleep there in the rain rather than seek shelter. They will move with you all day long if your work keeps you moving. They are born to stay by your side, like secret service agents.
Biddability: The second thing I think of is biddable, they are by your side they are looking to your eyes to see what you want. Thirdly they bring a moderate amount of
Minimal prey drive: They are manageable around stock, it’s no uphill battle to get them to refrain from killing your other critters.
Protective: This what their supposed to be all about…that’s job one. They should be wary/suspicious of strangers, and confident enough to want to get between them and you.
Coats: Short, and well suited to hot sunny climates, they also do fine outdoors in moderate cold.
Size: everybody lies; I’d say 130 was probably a generous “average size male” probably 100 for a bitch. Although they do vary and it’s not uncommon to get 160 lb males…. and some as large as 180 or more, it does become a challenge to find one that size that still moves well.
A guardian breed; family, farm, livestock. A real boerboel might be the perfect farm dog for me, might be all I needed, might be for a lot of people. The hard part is finding one that lives up to the superbly orchestrated Afrikaner marketing. And then finding two. As a component, one is all we need, and you can see how they might be useful to mix with many a breed.
Born and bred to protect livestock. The Kangal is my livestock guardian of choice. Also the only one in the final four that brings extreme cold weather tolerance, without the extreme shaggy often problematic coats of many of the livestock guardians. Or for that matter any degree of independence. I also expect a healthy dose of overall health and heartiness, as the Turks are historically less inclined to baby their dogs. Generally better hips than all the “mastiffs” ( penn hip .45) And excellent vision, for use on the endless vistas of Turkeys rolling sheep country. Little to no prey drive and a strong desire to protect everything in their domain from creatures that don’t belong, two or four legged.
Temperamentally they are possessed of some combination of nurturing or absence of prey drive sufficient that they can be trusted left alone with livestock. They watch, they guard, they protect. They don’t need to be in your lap. They don’t need your approval, and they are not inclined to work to hard to get it.
Intelligence: I find them to be the smartest dogs here, not yes men, but thinking to be sure.
Independence factor is high. A double edged sword to be sure, and perhaps the most significant difference in Dog temperament. It is a thing of pros and cons. Having raised Akitas ( super independent ) and Boerboels ( super biddable to the point of being needy ) I do find both extremes annoying at times, and helpful at others; but as the other three in the the final four are basically biddable, the Kangal will be a much needed infusion of independent thinking and spirit that I look forward to mixing to suit.
Health: To the extant the kangal is a sort of land race breed I hope they will bring a needed helping of overall health, hardiness and temperamental soundness that is often lacking in the breeds composed of more limited foundation stock. They do tend to live a very long time.
Cold weather tolerance: Can not underestimate that. The other three breeds of my choosing, most bully breeds for that matter, tend to be short coated dogs that can only tolerate so much cold. And what good is any form of watch dog if it’s curled up shivering in the bowels of it’s shelter throughout winter ? If I’m on a road trip in winter I want a dog to be comfortable sleeping under the truck, not one whining to be in the back with me. The Sivas region and much of Eastern Turkey is bitter cold, and wicked hot, these dogs, historically, were anything but pampered.
Nurturing: I believe that this is at the heart of a livestock guardian, an instinct to care for and protect, that has been selected for and made prominent over the prey drive that exists to some extent in all dogs. For anyone on a farm ( not to mention mad scientist dog breeders on farms ) this modulation of the prey drive is huge, this is critical. And I believe this basic temperament is easily shifted towards human family, cats; you name it. You raise em with it, they won’t kill it; they will protect it. Having had more than than my share of dogs for whom not killing is not natural, I very much appreciate it.
Eyesight: I can’t prove it, but I spent a month exploring the rolling vistas of Turkey and I’ve got to believe that if ever a breed would evolve good eye sight it would be one expected to guard livestock in that kind of terrain. Mine clearly has amazing vision, I no longer assume him to be barking pointlessly….I just look through a scope. His vision is hands down superior to any other dog on the farm.
Length/scale : These dogs are long and tall, thirty plus inches at the shoulder yet built to cover ground if needed, athletic, not clunky not too heavy.
The Great Dane is a stretch for me I’ll admit. It’s the bodies though that get me, I like the scale. I like a tall leggy dog, a dog that covers all sorts of ground. Granted the temperaments and smarts that I’ve found, leave a lot to be desired, but I’m going to literally scour the earth for a Dane with enough smarts, nerve, and guts to warrant feeding. I believe there must still be some out there, needle in the haystack of dopey Disney Danes though a good one most certainly is
Good with kids: On thing they have in common with the rest of the final four is they are truly good with children, true family dogs. I am hoping that I can find Danes as close to Danes of old to begin with but with the addition of working molosser lines, I anticipate producing something similar to a Dane of lore, in body and in spirit.
Dog aggression nil: Many people may find a Dogo or a hard Boerboel a little much to handle, more dog aggression than is ideal, or more liability than they want. The Dane cross, at least until I find hard Dane, is a sure way to water that down; without needing the watered down Dogos or Boerboels.
Good Hips: Another point that bears mention regards the contribution I expect the Dane to make is that for all their size they do tend to have good hips, better in fact than any mastiff. (See the pennhip scores) At present I have a gorgeous Dane with better movement than any dog I’ve seen anywhere close to his size with a pennhip .21 .24. …. ah if he only had a brain…. and a heart… he might leave a mark.
Coat: short
Size: 32, 33, 34, 35 inches… at the shoulder, scale baby, scale.
